2023 LUFKIN PANTHER FOOTBALL TOPIC DISCUSSIONS

[PackAttack]

16 minutes ago, timeout! said:

This is an important year for Quick and the program. Not because his job it at risk, but because I think it will solidify were this program is at for the foreseeable future. And also how Quick legacy as a HC here will be looked back on. 

If Lufkin fails to reach the playoffs this year or is one and done. I don't see this staff turning it around the next year or anytime soon after. Not when you consider all the talent they have this year. Keep in mind these guys from that Freshmen team will be juniors, along with a mix of some good seniors. You have to start taking steps forward at some point. So the next group learns how to win and can pass it down. 

Here is the thing. I don't see much of a legacy for Quick here as HC through 11 years.  He and his staff will need to win big time the next two or three years to make a dent to leave a positive legacy as a HC,  As a Asst under Outlaw ?, and HC at Lufkin the past 28 years, some may calculate that with a more positive spin with his playoff successes coaching with Outlaw. I do see your point however.

[timeout!]

29 minutes ago, PackAttack said:

Here is the thing. I don't see much of a legacy for Quick here as HC through 11 years.  He and his staff will need to win big time the next two or three years to make a dent to leave a positive legacy as a HC,  As a Asst under Outlaw ?, and HC at Lufkin the past 28 years, some may calculate that with a more positive spin with his playoff successes coaching with Outlaw. I do see your point however.

I don't know if there will ever be a better time than this 2-3 year window. If they can't get done during that time. I don't see it happening for them. You right about Quick legacy as a HC. Not much there, if anything to look at. One can argue that he has actually taken some of the shine off as DC here. Because of the lack of success as a HC. He would be revered as the best DC coordinator to come through Lufkin. Had he packed his bags and left for other opportunities 20 years ago. Much of that has been forgotten. 

It's funny how talent focused we are now. No one speaks about the system or culture here. It's simply if we got enough talent. Talent definitely plays a big part of a program success. But you have to have something else pushing it along. College Station lost their HC and star Rb last year. They still found away to power themselves back to another state appearance. It wasn't all based on talent. The culture and expectation at that school played a big part. 

I don't think we have much that here now. What happens a few years from now if the talent dips again? Just wait another 5,10,15, years for another super group to come through? 

[PurpleNation]

54 minutes ago, PackAttack said:

You say you would be " a little disappointed", I accept that, but that seems different from the enthusiasm you've had leading up to this season. Don't mean any disrespect because I highly value your expertise and input for this football team and these players.

I would need to see what the season looks like and how good the team is we play in the 1st round but I would certainly be disappointed if they can't manage to win a playoff game. I always felt this was this year before the year even though we lose Kedren. I think the defense is going to be one of the better units in Texas by 24. I think 3rd Rd this year would be successful in my eyes. 

[PackAttack]

34 minutes ago, timeout! said:

I don't know if there will ever be a better time than this 2-3 year window. If they can't get done during that time. I don't see it happening for them. You right about Quick legacy as a HC. Not much there, if anything to look at. One can argue that he has actually taken some of the shine off as DC here. Because of the lack of success as a HC. He would be revered as the best DC coordinator to come through Lufkin. Had he packed his bags and left for other opportunities 20 years ago. Much of that has been forgotten. 

It's funny how talent focused we are now. No one speaks about the system or culture here. It's simply if we got enough talent. Talent definitely plays a big part of a program success. But you have to have something else pushing it along. College Station lost their HC and star Rb last year. They still found away to power themselves back to another state appearance. It wasn't all based on talent. The culture and expectation at that school played a big part. 

I don't think we have much that here now. What happens a few years from now if the talent dips again? Just wait another 5,10,15, years for another super group to come through? 

Very good point.  The culture of winning playoff games in football left the building a few years back . Good programs, Elite programs always find a way to push through to keep the high standards alive year after year. Quick just let loose of the line, maybe he didn't mean to and it just got away by accident. Maybe he thought he could just pick it up again at the appropriate time.  Well, I think things and people and the Covid situation made grabbing that fish line again more difficult for him.  He fully knows the situation surrounding the program, the program has been on CPR the past 2 or 3 years, maybe Quick can find that lost fishing line and pull in a big fish this year or next. Offseason workouts are a grind, playing 10+ weeks of football is a grind, and I bet my bottom dollar coaching is a grind, It's a grind for the fans to watch the football guys not make the playoffs, it a combo of a bunch of things. Coaching's not easily, I don't want the job, however there is a bunch on the Panther team to help Quick look a lot better this year, if they so desire to make that happen.

[PurpleNation]

I would like to see Lufkin use tempo more on offense. Put some pressure on the defense after a chunk play. I'm really intrigued on how they plan on using Gavin this year. He can be a real weapon from the H-Back. How creative can Coach Green get with Gav. He has a little Lane train in him and he was looking lean in the spring. 

[Pack13]

Lufkin just isn’t a winning program. Programs make long runs in the playoffs. Aledo is great proof of that. Longview is becoming the same thing. Lufkin is hoping for a good team to match what those programs would consider a down year. 
 

I wish I knew the bracelet better to figure out match ups. I do think we will be a 3 seed then it depends on if a defense can hold Young. 
 

I do think our defense will be pretty good. I think a disciplined team like Longview will cause problem but most will struggle against them. 
 

A lot happens between freshman and junior year. That group had great athletes but puberty and proper development close those gaps very quickly. 

[PackAttack]

46 minutes ago, PurpleNation said:

I would like to see Lufkin use tempo more on offense. Put some pressure on the defense after a chunk play. I'm really intrigued on how they plan on using Gavin this year. He can be a real weapon from the H-Back. How creative can Coach Green get with Gav. He has a little Lane train in him and he was looking lean in the spring. 

THAT, is the million dollar question. How will good players be used and how much, chuckled a bit when reading "how creative ", just knowing the past on that situation.  That was well phrased. 😉 Guess we will find out pretty soon. I want to be really surprised this year. 

[wolfpack4life]

18 hours ago, PackAttack said:

For me, I believe Longview and Lancaster were better overall teams in 2022.

I think both will be better, or at the very least ...the same as 2022. Lancaster is a more talented and experienced team compared to last year and defensive returning starters don't do them justice for what they have on that side of the ball.

For instance, those returning starters aren't counting two D1 LBers that transferred into Lancaster from Cedar Hill and Duncanville respectfully. They've also had D1 talent transfer in at WR, which pushed one of their D1 WRs to full time safety. List goes on. They aren't deprived of any ballers on either side of the ball. They actually look like a really good football team from top to bottom.

For Longview, the Lobos are just straight loaded. I don't think people quite understand...but the 2024 and 2025 classes have now merged to form what will be 2023 Longview...that is insane. We're talking 2 deep at most positions.

The same way that people in Lufkin are excited for the 2025 class (and rightfully so)....Longview folks feel the same way about both the 2024 AND 2025 classes. We're talking about two special classes that blewout everyone that they faced as freshmen, including Highland Park and Denton Ryan...on the road! Having special SR and JR classes on one team is what gets you ranked top 2 in the state. The senior group that just left, much like Longview's freshmen ('26) team this past year, were good classes with a special player or two but wouldn't call the groups as a whole special like '24 and '25 are. 

• 14 3 year players in this SR group, and they've played in a lot of playoff games. 

• 6 3 year starters on defense

• 7 of 11 starters on defense with offers, including the entire secondary

• 13 back from a squad that played in the defacto state championship against Aledo and had them down 14-3 at half

• Taylor Tatum just received his 5th star

• Solid big and experienced OL in front of him and the other talented backs

• D1 talent at WR and TE

QB1 won't have to do much with all of that around him. Hit some passes off play action and take care of the ball.

Lancaster and Longview are looking really good. I expect everyone in the district to be better. The only teams that I'd be shocked to see in playoffs are the Mesquite schools.

 

 

 

[PackAttack]

33 minutes ago, wolfpack4life said:

I think both will be better, or at the very least ...the same as 2022. Lancaster is a more talented and experienced team compared to last year and defensive returning starters don't do them justice for what they have on that side of the ball.

For instance, those returning starters aren't counting two D1 LBers that transferred into Lancaster from Cedar Hill and Duncanville respectfully. They've also had D1 talent transfer in at WR, which pushed one of their D1 WRs to full time safety. List goes on. They aren't deprived of any ballers on either side of the ball. They actually look like a really good football team from top to bottom.

For Longview, the Lobos are just straight loaded. I don't think people quite understand...but the 2024 and 2025 classes have now merged to form what will be 2023 Longview...that is insane. We're talking 2 deep at most positions.

The same way that people in Lufkin are excited for the 2025 class (and rightfully so)....Longview folks feel the same way about both the 2024 AND 2025 classes. We're talking about two special classes that blewout everyone that they faced as freshmen, including Highland Park and Denton Ryan...on the road! Having special SR and JR classes on one team is what gets you ranked top 2 in the state. The senior group that just left, much like Longview's freshmen ('26) team this past year, were good classes with a special player or two but wouldn't call the groups as a whole special like '24 and '25 are. 

• 14 3 year players in this SR group, and they've played in a lot of playoff games. 

• 6 3 year starters on defense

• 7 of 11 starters on defense with offers, including the entire secondary

• 13 back from a squad that played in the defacto state championship against Aledo and had them down 14-3 at half

• Taylor Tatum just received his 5th star

• Solid big and experienced OL in front of him and the other talented backs

• D1 talent at WR and TE

QB1 won't have to do much with all of that around him. Hit some passes off play action and take care of the ball.

Lancaster and Longview are looking really good. I expect everyone in the district to be better. The only teams that I'd be shocked to see in playoffs are the Mesquite schools.

 

 

 

That's quite a lay out. Should be another for sure State Title for the Lobos. Loaded with talent for the next 10 years I've read somewhere.

Should we even make the trip to Longview this year?  Let's just flip a coin and be done with it. If there is some intimidation factor here, it's lost on me because I don't.

Most Lufkin fans are well aware what Longview has on their roster, this year and next.  Good luck on future runs, they are the fun part of HS football.

[wolfpack4life]

1 hour ago, PackAttack said:

That's quite a lay out. Should be another for sure State Title for the Lobos.

Aledo is a beast.

Champs until otherwise proven.

That was the bad thing about us not beating them last year, THIS year was actually supposed to be their year.

[PackAttack]

3 hours ago, wolfpack4life said:

Aledo is a beast.

Champs until otherwise proven.

That was the bad thing about us not beating them last year, THIS year was actually supposed to be their year.

5A DI Region 2 is a bear, maybe a 2nd game with Lancaster, then you would have College Station, PA Memorial, Denton Ryan and Aledo after that 🤕 Can't afford any key injuries in that stretch. That's anyone that travels this path.

[PurpleNation]

7 hours ago, wolfpack4life said:

I think both will be better, or at the very least ...the same as 2022. Lancaster is a more talented and experienced team compared to last year and defensive returning starters don't do them justice for what they have on that side of the ball.

For instance, those returning starters aren't counting two D1 LBers that transferred into Lancaster from Cedar Hill and Duncanville respectfully. They've also had D1 talent transfer in at WR, which pushed one of their D1 WRs to full time safety. List goes on. They aren't deprived of any ballers on either side of the ball. They actually look like a really good football team from top to bottom.

For Longview, the Lobos are just straight loaded. I don't think people quite understand...but the 2024 and 2025 classes have now merged to form what will be 2023 Longview...that is insane. We're talking 2 deep at most positions.

The same way that people in Lufkin are excited for the 2025 class (and rightfully so)....Longview folks feel the same way about both the 2024 AND 2025 classes. We're talking about two special classes that blewout everyone that they faced as freshmen, including Highland Park and Denton Ryan...on the road! Having special SR and JR classes on one team is what gets you ranked top 2 in the state. The senior group that just left, much like Longview's freshmen ('26) team this past year, were good classes with a special player or two but wouldn't call the groups as a whole special like '24 and '25 are. 

• 14 3 year players in this SR group, and they've played in a lot of playoff games. 

• 6 3 year starters on defense

• 7 of 11 starters on defense with offers, including the entire secondary

• 13 back from a squad that played in the defacto state championship against Aledo and had them down 14-3 at half

• Taylor Tatum just received his 5th star

• Solid big and experienced OL in front of him and the other talented backs

• D1 talent at WR and TE

QB1 won't have to do much with all of that around him. Hit some passes off play action and take care of the ball.

Lancaster and Longview are looking really good. I expect everyone in the district to be better. The only teams that I'd be shocked to see in playoffs are the Mesquite schools.

 

 

 

Has Longview settled in on a QB that you know of? Was Tutt the 7 on 7? 

[wolfpack4life]

1 minute ago, PurpleNation said:

Has Longview settled in on a QB that you know of? Was Tutt the 7 on 7? 

Tutt was the guy during 7v7.

Tutt was apart of that baseball run so in his absence during the spring, '25 Maverick Rowe was QB1 and did pretty well. It was his 2nd spring throwing varsity passes because of others who were in baseball.

Thing to remember about Tutt, although he isn't a returning starter, he's a 3 year varsity player. 

'25 DD Williams (6'5 190) also in the mix, but today I'd say he's 3rd in the pecking order. It's ultimately coming down to Tutt and Rowe IMO. I'm cool with whoever.

 

[timeout!]

"For instance, those returning starters aren't counting two D1 LBers that transferred into Lancaster from Cedar Hill and Duncanville respectfully. They've also had D1 talent transfer in at WR, which pushed one of their D1 WRs to full time safety. List goes on. They aren't deprived of any ballers on either side of the ball. They actually look like a really good football team from top to bottom."

This is one reason.  I'm always apprehensive about predicting how good those DFW teams will be from one year to the next. Things are always fluid in that area. They are never really short on filling holes. Talented guys from other schools just transfer in to fill the gaps. 

 

[PackAttack]

Lufkin High's enrollment is predicted to be in the neighborhood of 2140 in August. The snap shot count in October should be somewhere in that neighborhood  2140-2160, which would keep Lufkin in 5A DI. There are at least 3 schools in 7-5A who have 6A DII enrollment numbers today. Lancaster, Forney and West Mesquite. Longview is on the bubble and McKinney North is so far North, they will want to be placed in a district more in their area. Next year the shuffle will be on again. Will Lufkin stay North or head South again? Who moves up from 5A DII to 5A DI, who drops to DI from 6A, who moves up to 6A?  When will the 7A experiment happen?

We will think about that later on after the snap shot numbers come out in October. I think Lufkin moves back South some where. Just wonder if you guys had any thoughts on the matter.

[timeout!]

I heard we are down 200 plus students this year. If that trend continues next year. Is there a chance Lufkin slips down to 5A DII ?

[LufkinPack]

2 hours ago, timeout! said:

I heard we are down 200 plus students this year. If that trend continues next year. Is there a chance Lufkin slips down to 5A DII ?

Definitely true. I can see that number dropping another 20-30. The incoming fish to the high school, that class will be lucky to graduate 350. People leaving, and what’s left ain’t got the discipline to make a good enough student to actually graduate. 

[PackAttack]

On 7/8/2023 at 12:55 AM, LufkinPack said:

Definitely true. I can see that number dropping another 20-30. The incoming fish to the high school, that class will be lucky to graduate 350. People leaving, and what’s left ain’t got the discipline to make a good enough student to actually graduate. 

It will be interesting who will lead the district from the Superintendents position starting the Summer 2024?  Will the district look from within for the new leader or will someone from outside make that move?   

Hopefully our board  understands this enrollment decrease and what must be done to rectified and improve for the future of Lufkin ISD. There may be more changes than just the one leadership position too.  

Believe I stated that as tactful as possible. Where is a retired David Sharp when you need him?  Lufkin ISD was in it's best condition under his leadership.  Roy Knight did pretty well as a leader until John Outlaw passed away. 

Anyway, things will be different.  We were fortunate as a district that John Outlaw came to Lufkin as our AD and HC. The Lufkin football program was almost as it is today BEFORE Outlaw arrived here, he changed everything about the football culture here. Now that he is gone, we have slowly gravitated back to "the way we were". 

The community of Lufkin as a whole never experienced elite football and long playoff runs from Lufkin High between the Abe Martin (1936-1942) years and John Outlaw times (1995-2011) . Martin was 66-10 in his tenure and played a State Title game in 1942. Of course John Outlaw was (162-46) at Lufkin, won a State Title in 2001.   In the 53 years in between those two periods, Lufkin football was 275-198-22 making it no further than the 3rd round 5 times, 1944, 1946, 1962, 1988 and 1994. To give Todd Quick credit he has made the  3rd round once and 4th round once in his 11 seasons as Lufkin coach with a record of 80-45.

However, Dunbar Tiger football under Elmer G Redd was phenomenal to watch on Saturday nights  in the 60s at old Lufkin Panther Stadium. Three State PVIL Titles (64, 66 and 67) and a 2A UIL State Finalist in 1968 losing to Dangerfield 7-6 at old SFA Stadium. Redd had a record of 178-38-3 in football through 1969, he won 13 district titles, and also won two state championships in track and field. He left Dunbar in 1970 to coach at the University of Houston.

Elmer Redd (L- Dunbar Tiger HC) and Paul Durham Jr ( R -Diboll Free Press Editor)

[mr. b]

Unless something drastic changes, don’t expect an outsider to be the next sup. 

[PurpleNation]

On 7/6/2023 at 10:48 PM, timeout! said:

This is an important year for Quick and the program. Not because his job it at risk, but because I think it will solidify were this program is at for the foreseeable future. And also how Quick legacy as a HC here will be looked back on. 

If Lufkin fails to reach the playoffs this year or is one and done. I don't see this staff turning it around the next year or anytime soon after. Not when you consider all the talent they have this year. Keep in mind these guys from that Freshmen team will be juniors, along with a mix of some good seniors. You have to start taking steps forward at some point. So the next group learns how to win and can pass it down. 

I agree

[PurpleNation]

On 7/8/2023 at 4:22 PM, mr. b said:

Unless something drastic changes, don’t expect an outsider to be the next sup. 

This is what I have been saying 

[PackAttack]

Panther football kicks off in 46 days at Abe Martin Stadium.

[Pack13]

Today should be the start of July workouts. Anyone have an idea how those have been going? Anyone standing out? 

[PackAttack]

1 hour ago, Pack13 said:

Today should be the start of July workouts. Anyone have an idea how those have been going? Anyone standing out? 

Not sure, I'm sure someone can fill us in and I'm sure there are some players names we will get accustomed to hearing when the season begins, on both offense and defense.  Can't wait to see it happen.  On this end of things, my workouts taking care of 3 acres of lawn and lot area has knocked me into in fairly good shape for another season of climbing the old Abe Martin steps to Row 40.  Fans have to get ready too .   It's Hotter outside than a Rolex bought in Times Square right now!

[PackAttack]

DCTF - Stepp's 2023 Class 5A Division I Region II Outlook: 

The 2023 Texas high school football 5A Division I Region II Outlook, projecting district finishes, bi-district matchups and regional champs with teams like Longview, Lancaster, Port Arthur Memorial, Mansfield Timberview and Frisco Lone Star!!

Matt Stepp, District 7-5A DI predicted finish.

District 7-5A Division I

1. Lancaster
2. Longview
3. Forney
4. Lufkin
5. McKinney North
6. Tyler
7. West Mesquite
8. North Mesquite

 

PROJECTED BI-DISTRICT MATCHUPS

W5 Mansfield Timberview vs F6 Sherman

R8 Barbers Hill vs T7 Forney

W6 Frisco Lone Star vs F5 Carrollton Smith

R7 Longview vs T8 Humble Kingwood Park

W7 Lancaster vs F8 La Porte

R6 Frisco Reedy vs T5 Birdville

W8 Port Arthur Memorial vs F7 Lufkin

R5 Richland vs T6 Frisco Wakeland

 

REGIONAL CHAMPION

Longview over Lancaster